Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] IBM whitepaper
benedikt herudek <benedikt.herudek@...>
Hi Chris,
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excellent paper ! Below two remarks / questions around Identity Management vs Consensus and one suggestion concerning data privacy on permissioned blockchains. Interested in anyone's view. regards benedikt 1st remark: Chain Language, Turing halting problem & native currency: Understand, you don't introduce a native OBC currency. It seems you might introduce a native OBC language in the future. But at the moment, you support existing languages like go. https://github.com/openblockchain/obc-docs/blob/master/FAQ/chaincode_FAQ.md
Without a native currency, but with a full turing complete language, how will you address someone introducing mailicious code running through endless loops and eating up ressources ? Ethereum wants to address this with the notion of gas, so transactions running too long and not having the ressources will just get halted and rolled back. That is inherently connected to having participants pay for transactions. Hence, having a native cryptocurrency as part of a blockchain seems to offer a good mechanism to block such attacks. Is the implicit assumption here that enterprise permissioned blockchains have a lesser risk of such intruders and hence, if we establish identity of blockchain participants and have auditors over the network, we would get on top of such intruders anyways ?
2nd remark: Trusted Ledger: Identity Management & Consensus Mechanism:
The OBC you suggests offers participants to plug in their own consenus mechanism. It seems one could even use the OBC architecture without a consensus mechanism:https://github.com/openblockchain/obc-docs/blob/master/FAQ/consensus_FAQ.md In that case it might be (see 1st remark) the implicit assumption is we establish identity of participants in blockchains to restrict access and audit members and with ensuring this, we have eventually only trusted members (we dont let others in or remove them) in the network. The need for 'unbreakable' consensus mechanisms like bitcoin proof of work for a permissionless network (everyone can plugin) might become lesser of a concern. One might think Identity Management introduces a notion of centralization (you also address this point here: https://github.com/openblockchain/obc-docs/blob/master/FAQ/identity_management_FAQ.md) into a blockchain. But for enterprise transactions, having identity management is just indispensable. My concern would however be to overstress Identity Management compared to consensus as the underlying mechanism to ensure we have trusted data in a shared ledger. Having Consensus optional and Identity Management mandatory might allow 'abuses' of the architecture as a simple 'inter - enterprise - B2B - platform'. Maybe it could be useful to default a minimal consensus mechanism and give (minimal) criteria to replace the default consensus mechanism you suggest. Having a consensus mechanism enforced, it could also be useful having a lightweight or no-identity management option as part of the OBC for 'bitcoin like' usecases, where participants might not want to reveal their identity. A Suggestion for Data Privacy on (permissioned) Blockchains Placing certain data on a shared ledger will be a hard sell too many, who dont sleep well over hearing concepts like 'distrubuted shared ledger' and 'health and financial data' in one sentence. It will be difficult to overcome such concerns with a treatise on the strength of cryptography and frankly, there are ongoing discussions how secure crypto is and will be with more (quantum) computing power in the future. A pragmatic solution could be placing 'really sensitive data' outside the blockchain, link the data and keep only e.g. a (partial) fingerprint on the blockchain. You mention someting similar in a different context and purpose for files.
https://github.com/openblockchain/obc-docs/blob/master/whitepaper.md (section Architecture / Blockchain) : Large files (documents, etc.) are stored in off-chain storage, not on the Ledger. Their hashes can be stored on-chain as part of the transactions, which is required to maintain the integrity of files
This could be a general and optional feature: One should be able choosing to have 'really sensitive' data in a permissioned database in one's regular enterprise network. The Blockchain transaction (cryptograhically secured) would contain:
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On 18.02.2016 18:55, Duc Trinh via hyperledger-tsc wrote:
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Proposal Template Rough Draft
Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
You may find this example helpful as well. Particularly the section on states of lifecycle in section 3.3.
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Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation ---
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[Hyperledger Project TSC] Proposal Template Rough Draft
Vipin Bharathan
Hello Georg, Thanks, As far as feedback I received I noted: 1. Put in a lifecycle section (incubator, testing, released etc.) 2.Scope and closure: what is the exact scope? How do we know the project is over (successfully or unsuccessfully or incomplete)? There were several views on this including the facts that the project can never be closed since it is continuously improving. I believe we can resolve this in combination, define status and put the project lifecycle as continuous improvement. 3.What defines a project? Your definition seems to be good. As far as the links to other templates are concerned, the Apache system is a little too generic as it can house a wide variety of projects. However as suggested there, the project proposal template should be descriptive not normative. This allows for proposals that do not fit into the template as future proposals cannot be fully anticipated. What are the next steps? 1. I will write this out in some more detail incorporating feedback 2. We will need to host this in a shared area after getting initial clearance from the tsc. This can be further refined as time passes and as experience teaches us. To the general tsc list: Any more comments? Vipin From: Georg Link <linkgeorg@...> To: hyperledger-tsc@... Subject: Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Proposal Template Rough Draft Message-ID: <CAGaP0dha+OmzuSJDw-H1LtzOfEitaqu4AHUDOd-LfUGBPRSvkw@...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Vipin, thank you for making the initial proposal. I think you already received some good feedback during the TSC call. For everyone who was not on the TSC call earlier. Here are examples from other Collaborative Projects: https://wiki.allseenalliance.org/develop/proposing_a_project https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Main Further ideas might come from looking at Apache Incubator: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html One question that I don't remember being addressed: who can be a technical champion. Does it have to be a TSC member (similar to the apache incubator) or can it be anyone? Another topic brought up: what are "projects" within Hyperledger. >From my understanding it is any initiative that furthers Hyperledger, including new features, modules (maybe in different repositories), or special interest sub-groups (QA-group ?). Basically anything that requires resources and the community should decide collectively whether to go down a certain path (commit to the proposed project). - It might be helpful to include a "definition" to know for what to create a project proposal. Best Georg
On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 8:47 AM, vipin bharathan via hyperledger-tsc < hyperledger-tsc@...> wrote: > Some thoughts on the proposal template which I had volunteered to help > edit. > > 1. The seeds of a new project proposal has to be vetted in a public > forum like hyperledger-technical before creating a project proposal. > > 2. It needs a technical champion who believes in the project and who > should be the technical lead on the project. The project champion can > change in the middle of the project. > > 3. The proposal template for HyperLedger Improvement Proposal (HIP): > > > - Author(s) name and contact details including email address, a short > name for the project (less than 10 words). > > - Abstract (less than 50 word) description of the project. > > - The description and need for this project, substantiated by: > > - Technical details Effects on > - Transactions- including confidentiality, signing, traceability, > identity of participants, contracts (scripts) > - Effects on User facing Clients that help with transaction > formation (similar to Wallets in BTC) > - Effects on the network, throughput, visibility to other > participants, change in protocol if any, criteria for network participation > - Block formation and ledger formation viz. Consensus algorithm, > size overhead, effects on the throughput and rate > - Cryptographic implications if any. > - Backward compatibility (hard fork or updates by all network > participants needed?) > - Rough design and thought experiment (Gedanken Experiment) on the > probable effects, if any > - Address any possible objections and also support that came up > during seed proposal from technical community on the lists. > - Traceablity, testing criteria to gauge effects on installed base. > - Any other technical details, including languages used, other > technology needed and (preferably) public sources for additional tools and > binaries > - References and defense of why this is needed, especially if the > same ideas have been already addressed in any other project. > > - Rough gauge of effort and resources committed (coders and any > other resources that are needed) and timeline if available. > > - Readability which means following certain conventions. The style > itself could be controlled by Chicago Manual Of Style say, explanation of > abbreviations, references, diagrams. A proposal editor appointed from by > the tsc could help with this. As technical people we often do not think > about this aspect. This is extremely important as the clear statement of > the problem and its technical details are helpful to elicit a solution in > the community and prompt volunteers. This can be helped by having a > proposal builder software or a template itself. > > > Any comments? > Thanks, > Vipin
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[Hyperledger Project TSC] Minutes 02.18.16
Todd Benzies <tbenzies@...>
Hyperledger Project Technical Steering Committee (TSC) Meeting February 18, 2016 (7:00am - 8:30am PT) via GoToMeeting TSC Members
Resources:
Agenda:
TSC Chair Elections
Code of Conduct Discussion
Intel Contribution Overview
DRAFT Project Proposal Template
Initial Discussion on How Proposed Contributions Could Be Converged
Face-to-Face Meeting
Agenda Draft for 2/25 TSC Meeting
Todd Benzies Senior Program Manager The Linux Foundation +1 (415) 412-0310 (m) Skype: tbenzies
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] IBM whitepaper
Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@...>
Thanks!
Cheers, Christopher Ferris IBM Distinguished Engineer, CTO Open Technology IBM Cloud, Open Technologies email: chrisfer@... twitter: @christo4ferris blog: https://developer.ibm.com/opentech/author/chrisfer/ phone: +1 508 667 0402
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Proposal Template Rough Draft
Georg Link <linkgeorg@...>
Hi Vipin, thank you for making the initial proposal. I think you already received some good feedback during the TSC call. For everyone who was not on the TSC call earlier. Here are examples from other Collaborative Projects: Further ideas might come from looking at Apache Incubator: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html One question that I don't remember being addressed: who can be a technical champion. Does it have to be a TSC member (similar to the apache incubator) or can it be anyone? Another topic brought up: what are "projects" within Hyperledger. From my understanding it is any initiative that furthers Hyperledger, including new features, modules (maybe in different repositories), or special interest sub-groups (QA-group ?). Basically anything that requires resources and the community should decide collectively whether to go down a certain path (commit to the proposed project). - It might be helpful to include a "definition" to know for what to create a project proposal. Best Georg
On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 8:47 AM, vipin bharathan via hyperledger-tsc <hyperledger-tsc@...> wrote:
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] IBM whitepaper
Duc.M.Trinh@...
Chris, This is a very well thought-out paper! Two very minor suggested mods for clarity:
“As the shared ledger concept gains
“We believe that one of the fundamental requirements for any blockchain fabric is that the identity and patterns of behavior of any party on a network
Cheers, Duc
From: hyperledger-tsc-bounces@... [mailto:hyperledger-tsc-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Christopher B Ferris via hyperledger-tsc
All, as we discussed on the TSC call, here's a link to the IBM blockchain whitepaper that we published with the open blockchain repos earlier this week. We welcome any and all feedback.
Cheers,
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[Hyperledger Project TSC] IBM whitepaper
Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@...>
All, as we discussed on the TSC call, here's a link to the IBM blockchain whitepaper that we published with the open blockchain repos earlier this week. We welcome any and all feedback.
Cheers, Christopher Ferris IBM Distinguished Engineer, CTO Open Technology IBM Cloud, Open Technologies email: chrisfer@... twitter: @christo4ferris blog: https://developer.ibm.com/opentech/author/chrisfer/ phone: +1 508 667 0402
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] hyperledger-tsc Digest, Vol 1, Issue 18
Michael Pusateri <mpusateri@...>
Todd,
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Can I get access to Slack? Thanks, Michael Pusateri CEO 2200 Ross Ave. | Suite 4700E | Dallas, TX 75201 214-393-9663 mpusateri@...
-----Original Message-----
From: hyperledger-tsc-bounces@... [mailto:hyperledger-tsc-bounces@...] On Behalf Of hyperledger-tsc-request@... Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:36 PM To: hyperledger-tsc@... Subject: hyperledger-tsc Digest, Vol 1, Issue 18 Send hyperledger-tsc mailing list submissions to hyperledger-tsc@... To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.hyperledger.org/mailman/listinfo/hyperledger-tsc or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to hyperledger-tsc-request@... You can reach the person managing the list at hyperledger-tsc-owner@... When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of hyperledger-tsc digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Slack access (Todd Benzies) 2. Re: Draft Agenda for 2/18 TSC Meeting (Michael Dolan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:19:01 -0800 From: Todd Benzies <tbenzies@...> To: Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@...> Cc: hyperledger-tsc@... Subject: Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Slack access Message-ID: <CAP31P8uR5KbUNBJG4-D3gJuDDvuHwC_BXrJnqOSaeOk313Hk-g@...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi all, I have been whitelisting domains for the Hyperledger Project Slack. You should be able to join at https://hyperledgerproject.slack.com/signup. If your domain is not listed, please shoot me a private message at tbenzies@... so that I can whitelist your domain. Regards, Todd On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:15 AM, Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@...> wrote: Slack is open to everyone, but because Slack has a more enterprise -- *Todd Benzies* Senior Program Manager The Linux Foundation +1 (415) 412-0310 (m) tbenzies@... Skype: tbenzies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.hyperledger.org/mailman/private/hyperledger-tsc/attachments/20160217/756851bc/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 17:35:10 -0500 From: Michael Dolan <mdolan@...> To: tsc@... Subject: Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Draft Agenda for 2/18 TSC Meeting Message-ID: <402AA02B-A118-4690-9AEE-75137457265E@...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi everyone, just another reminder to get any TSC Chair nominations in by 9pm Pacific Time TODAY. I?ve only seen a nomination from Chris Ferris. If anyone else on the TSC wishes to be nominated, please send your nomination ASAP. Second, Intel has notified me they?re ready to discuss a contribution they?re planning to make and have been working on. I?ve allocated time for an overview tomorrow. They?re still working to clear the code for making it available, but it would be good to get an understanding of their proposal. I?ve revised the agenda below to accommodate and have attached a PDF of slides Mic would like to walk through. Please note we have a very tight agenda and I?d ask you dial in a few minutes early so that we can get a quick start. Given the high number of participants last week, we?ve turned off the beeping feature on GoToMeeting when new participants join. Hopefully that will enable a smoother discussion. Agenda: 5-10 mins: Statement from each TSC Chair nominee (3-5 mins per nominee; list or number of nominees TBD) 10 mins: Code of Conduct discussion (Chris Ferris) (link to referenced CF CoC: https://www.cloudfoundry.org/foundation/code-of-conduct) 10 mins: Intel contribution overview (Mic Bowman) 5 mins: Draft project proposal template (Stefan Buhrmester and Vipin Bharathan, if ready) 30 mins: Discussion on basic use cases to address 20 mins: Initial discussion on how proposed contributions could be converged Thanks, Mike --- Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation --- On Feb 16, 2016, at 5:32 PM, Michael Dolan <mdolan@...> wrote:-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.hyperledger.org/mailman/private/hyperledger-tsc/attachments/20160217/8e09611d/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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[Hyperledger Project TSC] TSC Chair Nominations
Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
Please see the candidate nominations attached.
--- Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation Office: +1.330.460.3250 Cell: +1.440.552.5322 Skype: michaelkdolan mdolan@... ---
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[Hyperledger Project TSC] Proposal Template Rough Draft
Vipin Bharathan
Some thoughts on the proposal template which I had volunteered to help edit.
Any comments? Thanks, Vipin
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Draft Agenda for 2/18 TSC Meeting
Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
Hi everyone, just another reminder to get any TSC Chair nominations in by 9pm Pacific Time TODAY. I’ve only seen a nomination from Chris Ferris. If anyone else on the TSC wishes to be nominated, please send your nomination ASAP.
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Second, Intel has notified me they’re ready to discuss a contribution they’re planning to make and have been working on. I’ve allocated time for an overview tomorrow. They’re still working to clear the code for making it available, but it would be good to get an understanding of their proposal. I’ve revised the agenda below to accommodate and have attached a PDF of slides Mic would like to walk through. Please note we have a very tight agenda and I’d ask you dial in a few minutes early so that we can get a quick start. Given the high number of participants last week, we’ve turned off the beeping feature on GoToMeeting when new participants join. Hopefully that will enable a smoother discussion. Agenda:
Thanks, Mike
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Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation ---
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Slack access
Todd Benzies <tbenzies@...>
Hi all, Regards, Todd
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:15 AM, Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@...> wrote:
--
Todd Benzies Senior Program Manager The Linux Foundation +1 (415) 412-0310 (m) Skype: tbenzies
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] code-of conduct
Remco Rijnders <remco.rijnders@...>
On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 05:44:01PM +0000, Christopher wrote in <201602131744.u1DHi7Vu011938@...>:
One thing that i believe that we should establish early on is a code of conduct for the Hyperledger project.How about having no code of conduct? See for example https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md In my opinion, a CoC brings nothing over normal civil behaviour which I feel is an implicit requirement for succesful participation in any project. Trying to codify everything in rules will only lead to people discussing and arguing the rules, look for corner cases and exceptions, etc. Common sense beats a CoC any day [*]. Remco [*] I realise common sense is not all that common, unfortunately.
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Draft Agenda for 2/18 TSC Meeting
Patrick Salami
Hello, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself: I am co-founder of HitFin (http://www.hitfin.com), a software company that brings traditional financial contracts (such as derivatives) to the blockchain. Our platform is based on Ethereum, but we are very interested in participating in this project to help move blockchain technology forward. We are in regular contact with customers from the financial services and insurance industries who approach us with specific use cases for blockchain technology. Through those conversations, we are learning a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of the current-generation technology and we have collected ideas regarding how future generations can offer improvements and deliver value to the financial services industry, particularly related to trading and post-trade clearing & settlement. I would be happy to share some of those thoughts during the call on Thursday. Best,
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Michael Dolan via hyperledger-tsc <hyperledger-tsc@...> wrote:
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Draft Agenda for 2/18 TSC Meeting
Mike,
We discussed taking time for an overview of what Intel plans to commit. I could provide a high level overview this week or we could wait until the code is finally published.
--mic
From: hyperledger-tsc-bounces@... [mailto:hyperledger-tsc-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Michael Dolan via hyperledger-tsc
For Thursday’s Hyperledger TSC Call, below are the agenda topics I’ve captured from last meeting and subsequent email threads. Please remember the deadline for submitting TSC Chair nominations is tomorrow (Wed) at 9pm US Pacific Time. I’d like to give any nominees a few minutes to discuss their candidacy at the start of the call, if the nominees want to.
Finally, if anyone would like to volunteer to lead the discussion on use cases or convergence proposals, please let me know. I saw Binh sent an email with a conversion proposal last week, but wasn’t sure if we should plan for any others who can lead portions of the discussion.
Draft Agenda:
If there are any other agenda topics we should add, please let me know.
Thanks,
Mike
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[Hyperledger Project TSC] Draft Agenda for 2/18 TSC Meeting
Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
For Thursday’s Hyperledger TSC Call, below are the agenda topics I’ve captured from last meeting and subsequent email threads. Please remember the deadline for submitting TSC Chair nominations is tomorrow (Wed) at 9pm US Pacific Time. I’d like to give any nominees a few minutes to discuss their candidacy at the start of the call, if the nominees want to. Finally, if anyone would like to volunteer to lead the discussion on use cases or convergence proposals, please let me know. I saw Binh sent an email with a conversion proposal last week, but wasn’t sure if we should plan for any others who can lead portions of the discussion. Draft Agenda:
If there are any other agenda topics we should add, please let me know. Thanks, Mike
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Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation Office: +1.330.460.3250 Cell: +1.440.552.5322 Skype: michaelkdolan mdolan@... ---
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Reminder: Send in TSC Chair nominations
Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@...>
Fellow TSC members,
I'd like to self-nominate for the position as TSC Chair. Attached is my brief bio and pitch. Cheers, Christopher Ferris IBM Distinguished Engineer, CTO Open Technology IBM Cloud, Open Technologies email: chrisfer@... twitter: @christo4ferris blog: https://developer.ibm.com/opentech/author/chrisfer/ phone: +1 508 667 0402 -----hyperledger-tsc-bounces@... wrote: -----To: tsc@... From: Michael Dolan via hyperledger-tsc Sent by: hyperledger-tsc-bounces@... Date: 02/16/2016 11:42AM Subject: [Hyperledger Project TSC] Reminder: Send in TSC Chair nominations Hyperledger TSC members, per the election process approved by the TSC last Thursday, I’d like to remind you that if you are on the TSC and would like to run for the TSC Chair position, please send your nominations and brief bio/pitch to the TSC list. Todd and I will consolidate the nominations into a single PDF and distribute that information for voting. Thanks, Mike --- Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation Office: +1.330.460.3250 Cell: +1.440.552.5322 Skype: michaelkdolan mdolan@... --- _______________________________________________ hyperledger-tsc mailing list hyperledger-tsc@... https://lists.hyperledger.org/mailman/listinfo/hyperledger-tsc
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[Hyperledger Project TSC] Reminder: Send in TSC Chair nominations
Michael Dolan <mdolan@...>
Hyperledger TSC members, per the election process approved by the TSC last Thursday, I’d like to remind you that if you are on the TSC and would like to run for the TSC Chair position, please send your nominations and brief bio/pitch to the TSC list. Todd and I will consolidate the nominations into a single PDF and distribute that information for voting.
Thanks, Mike --- Mike Dolan VP of Strategic Programs The Linux Foundation Office: +1.330.460.3250 Cell: +1.440.552.5322 Skype: michaelkdolan mdolan@... ---
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Re: [Hyperledger Project TSC] code-of conduct
Dan O'Prey <dan@...>
Sounds like a great idea and good starting point. Dan O'Prey CMO 162 5th Avenue, Suite 902, New York, NY, 10010 On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Christopher B Ferris via hyperledger-tsc <hyperledger-tsc@...> wrote: (resending as text) This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at http://www.digitalasset.
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