Date
1 - 13 of 13
Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
David Boswell
Phil,
You're absolutely right that there are challenges in activating a new and widely distributed global group of people. Fortunately there are a lot of best practices from 25+ years of open source communities that we can leverage.
You reference tasks with clear deliverables and I think that is one of the keys to how to move forward. What are tasks that the group should be doing? Let's discuss with the group to identify some initial tasks, document them clearly on the wiki and then find people to help drive those forward.
For instance, I think setting up a speaker's series is a really good thing for us to start working on. If we can have a regular series of compelling speakers, then that will help us recruit more people to the group and will give existing group members an incentive to join a regular call where we can also talk about other topics relevant to the group.
And to address the issue you raise about people being distributed across time zones, I'd recommend that we alternate times of calls we set up so that people in different geographies can attend. We can record all calls and also take notes so people can participate and share feedback even if they weren't able to dial-in.
Thanks,
David
On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 9:06 AM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I like that idea a lot. I do think that it’s uncommon and there is going to be a need to socialize the community toward the bias for action. When a group is relatively small and consistently engaged it’s easier and productive I think to do that. We’re a bit challenged by the widely distributed (geographically) membership. We want to strongly encourage that, especially among our friends and colleague in other countries in Europe, Africa and Asia. That spirit also applies of course to South America, but they are roughly within the timezone spread of the North American hemisphere, making their challenges for particpation and least in a temporal sense similar to ours.
A ‘do-acracy’ then for me is a great goal, but unlikely to function well at the outset. And given the asynchronous nature of lists, and website visits, it’s not a certainty to me how well it will guide groups efficiently toward tasks with clear deliverables. But I’m open to trying it and seeing, after we’ve engaged the community at large around the idea and overtly pointed toward examples of it by those of us who do step forward ‘do stuff’ ;-)
Cheers,Phil
On Nov 25, 2019, at 6:16 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Phil
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I completely agree that we should be encouraging people to step up and not driving talent away.
In that sense, I'd like to share the concept of this group ideally being a do-ocracy -- "an organizational structure in which individuals choose roles and tasks for themselves and execute them. Responsibilities attach to people who do the work, rather than elected or selected officials." More about this concept at:
That is why I was focusing on the fact that if someone sees something that could be improved on the wiki that they jump in and fix it. Those people who step up and move the group forward are just as much leaders as someone who is voted into a formal position.
That's not to say that everyone who shows up needs to edit the wiki, but it would be great to see more people getting involved and driving things forward -- for instance, people could show their leadership by editing the wiki to improve the documentation. (Although at this point I think the documentation on the wiki and on the list does provide clear instructions on how to vote).
For one more example of other ways people can step up, we talked about a speaker series for the group -- someone can go find people who can speak and get calls scheduled. And that was just one of many actions people have talked about.
So I would encourage everyone to think of this election as the first of many opportunities for people to take leadership positions. There are all sorts of opportunities here, with the Chair and Vice-Chair roles being just one option, and we need to focus on how to harness people's interests and get them doing things that move the group's mission forward.
Thanks,David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 2:25 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
Hi: Looks like I disagree with the nature of the problem. I tend to view the goal to give as much opportunity as possible to the community to give their input. From that lens, extending the timeline of the vote is a real positive. We’ve all commented on the challenges that the standard processes we have are a bit cumbersome. And while David has suggested that anyone on the EASIG can edit the web page to clarify things, it’s probably unrealistic to expect people new to this space to jump right in a do that. Those that might be able to and are more familiar are also typically deeply involved in other things. The ability for them is there. The time isn’t
So my bias is toward holding it open until the following Monday. Hopefully the wiki can be edited by then, if it’s not already, to clearly point people not just to the voting page (and the list membership required to do it) but also provide some help regarding where these conversations are happening. It would be nice to have the wiki be the focal point and link to the discussion threads, for example.
I also retain some concern about voting for leadership and second prize is vice chair. I think most people who are thinking about vice chair do so intentionally, not as an alternative to the chair position. To me that drives talent away rather than encouraging new people to step up, as stepping up requires you put yourself in contention for the chair. Sharon, for example, is very clear about not wanting to be chair, but wanting to help. However, the system we have demands she be seeking the chair and hoping she is chosen by just enough to fall into second place. That to me isn’t ideal.
I’m not trying to muck up the works here. I just don’t see quite the pressure to wrap this up as some have expressed. Rather, I’d like to learn from this and tweak as best we can to get it right and off to a good start. Therefore pushing the closing out over the holidays until next week feels better to me. Making sure the wiki has the explicit instruction and pointers to the EASIG Lists threads where much of the discussion is happening is second priority. I’m not sure what to say about the vote single vote for the two positions problem, except perhaps to consider this vote a first round for the chair position, and do a second for vice chair. That could be shorter in duration since we hopefully have socialized everyone about the process. It gives all who were vying for lead to decide if they want to stand for vice chair, as well as give those who only want to consider the supportive role the ability to do so.
My two cents.
Cheers everyone,Phil
On Nov 25, 2019, at 2:21 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Feng,
OK, it's your call on the timing of when voting is done. I'll send a reminder to the list right after this and ask people to vote by the end of the day.
I am glad we ended up giving people more than 2 days to vote since there have clearly been people with questions about the process who have needed some time to get their votes in.
Thanks,David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 10:49 AM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I understand some of the issues, however, to be totally honest, some of the confusions were caused by allowing some on-the-fly changes. I had proposed for the vote to run for only 2 days, but I went with your suggestion to run the vote for multiple days. So I say let’s stick to the plan and close the vote by Monday as you have planned.
Thanks!
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollFeng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
Phillip Long
David: I like that idea a lot. I do think that it’s uncommon and there is going to be a need to socialize the community toward the bias for action. When a group is relatively small and consistently engaged it’s easier and productive I think to do that. We’re
a bit challenged by the widely distributed (geographically) membership. We want to strongly encourage that, especially among our friends and colleague in other countries in Europe, Africa and Asia. That spirit also applies of course to South America, but they
are roughly within the timezone spread of the North American hemisphere, making their challenges for particpation and least in a temporal sense similar to ours.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A ‘do-acracy’ then for me is a great goal, but unlikely to function well at the outset. And given the asynchronous nature of lists, and website visits, it’s not a certainty to me how well it will guide groups efficiently toward tasks with clear
deliverables. But I’m open to trying it and seeing, after we’ve engaged the community at large around the idea and overtly pointed toward examples of it by those of us who do step forward ‘do stuff’ ;-)
Cheers,
Phil
On Nov 25, 2019, at 6:16 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Phil
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I completely agree that we should be encouraging people to step up and not driving talent away.
In that sense, I'd like to share the concept of this group ideally being a do-ocracy -- "an organizational structure in which individuals choose roles and tasks for themselves and execute them. Responsibilities attach to people who do the work, rather than elected or selected officials." More about this concept at:
That is why I was focusing on the fact that if someone sees something that could be improved on the wiki that they jump in and fix it. Those people who step up and move the group forward are just as much leaders as someone who is voted into a formal position.
That's not to say that everyone who shows up needs to edit the wiki, but it would be great to see more people getting involved and driving things forward -- for instance, people could show their leadership by editing the wiki to improve the documentation. (Although at this point I think the documentation on the wiki and on the list does provide clear instructions on how to vote).
For one more example of other ways people can step up, we talked about a speaker series for the group -- someone can go find people who can speak and get calls scheduled. And that was just one of many actions people have talked about.
So I would encourage everyone to think of this election as the first of many opportunities for people to take leadership positions. There are all sorts of opportunities here, with the Chair and Vice-Chair roles being just one option, and we need to focus on how to harness people's interests and get them doing things that move the group's mission forward.
Thanks,David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 2:25 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
Hi: Looks like I disagree with the nature of the problem. I tend to view the goal to give as much opportunity as possible to the community to give their input. From that lens, extending the timeline of the vote is a real positive. We’ve all commented on the challenges that the standard processes we have are a bit cumbersome. And while David has suggested that anyone on the EASIG can edit the web page to clarify things, it’s probably unrealistic to expect people new to this space to jump right in a do that. Those that might be able to and are more familiar are also typically deeply involved in other things. The ability for them is there. The time isn’t
So my bias is toward holding it open until the following Monday. Hopefully the wiki can be edited by then, if it’s not already, to clearly point people not just to the voting page (and the list membership required to do it) but also provide some help regarding where these conversations are happening. It would be nice to have the wiki be the focal point and link to the discussion threads, for example.
I also retain some concern about voting for leadership and second prize is vice chair. I think most people who are thinking about vice chair do so intentionally, not as an alternative to the chair position. To me that drives talent away rather than encouraging new people to step up, as stepping up requires you put yourself in contention for the chair. Sharon, for example, is very clear about not wanting to be chair, but wanting to help. However, the system we have demands she be seeking the chair and hoping she is chosen by just enough to fall into second place. That to me isn’t ideal.
I’m not trying to muck up the works here. I just don’t see quite the pressure to wrap this up as some have expressed. Rather, I’d like to learn from this and tweak as best we can to get it right and off to a good start. Therefore pushing the closing out over the holidays until next week feels better to me. Making sure the wiki has the explicit instruction and pointers to the EASIG Lists threads where much of the discussion is happening is second priority. I’m not sure what to say about the vote single vote for the two positions problem, except perhaps to consider this vote a first round for the chair position, and do a second for vice chair. That could be shorter in duration since we hopefully have socialized everyone about the process. It gives all who were vying for lead to decide if they want to stand for vice chair, as well as give those who only want to consider the supportive role the ability to do so.
My two cents.
Cheers everyone,Phil
On Nov 25, 2019, at 2:21 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Feng,
OK, it's your call on the timing of when voting is done. I'll send a reminder to the list right after this and ask people to vote by the end of the day.
I am glad we ended up giving people more than 2 days to vote since there have clearly been people with questions about the process who have needed some time to get their votes in.
Thanks,David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 10:49 AM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I understand some of the issues, however, to be totally honest, some of the confusions were caused by allowing some on-the-fly changes. I had proposed for the vote to run for only 2 days, but I went with your suggestion to run the vote for multiple days. So I say let’s stick to the plan and close the vote by Monday as you have planned.
Thanks!
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollFeng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
David Boswell
Phil
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I completely agree that we should be encouraging people to step up and not driving talent away.
In that sense, I'd like to share the concept of this group ideally being a do-ocracy -- "an organizational structure in which individuals choose roles and tasks
for themselves and execute them. Responsibilities attach to people who do the work, rather than elected or selected officials." More about this concept at:
That is why I was focusing on the fact that if someone sees something that could be improved on the wiki that they jump in and fix it. Those people who step up and move the group forward are just as much leaders as someone who is voted into a formal position.
That's not to say that everyone who shows up needs to edit the wiki, but it would be great to see more people getting involved and driving things forward -- for instance, people could show their leadership by editing the wiki to improve the documentation. (Although at this point I think the documentation on the wiki and on the list does provide clear instructions on how to vote).
For one more example of other ways people can step up, we talked about a speaker series for the group -- someone can go find people who can speak and get calls scheduled. And that was just one of many actions people have talked about.
So I would encourage everyone to think of this election as the first of many opportunities for people to take leadership positions. There are all sorts of opportunities here, with the Chair and Vice-Chair roles being just one option, and we need to focus on how to harness people's interests and get them doing things that move the group's mission forward.
Thanks,
David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 2:25 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
Hi: Looks like I disagree with the nature of the problem. I tend to view the goal to give as much opportunity as possible to the community to give their input. From that lens, extending the timeline of the vote is a real positive. We’ve all commented on the challenges that the standard processes we have are a bit cumbersome. And while David has suggested that anyone on the EASIG can edit the web page to clarify things, it’s probably unrealistic to expect people new to this space to jump right in a do that. Those that might be able to and are more familiar are also typically deeply involved in other things. The ability for them is there. The time isn’t
So my bias is toward holding it open until the following Monday. Hopefully the wiki can be edited by then, if it’s not already, to clearly point people not just to the voting page (and the list membership required to do it) but also provide some help regarding where these conversations are happening. It would be nice to have the wiki be the focal point and link to the discussion threads, for example.
I also retain some concern about voting for leadership and second prize is vice chair. I think most people who are thinking about vice chair do so intentionally, not as an alternative to the chair position. To me that drives talent away rather than encouraging new people to step up, as stepping up requires you put yourself in contention for the chair. Sharon, for example, is very clear about not wanting to be chair, but wanting to help. However, the system we have demands she be seeking the chair and hoping she is chosen by just enough to fall into second place. That to me isn’t ideal.
I’m not trying to muck up the works here. I just don’t see quite the pressure to wrap this up as some have expressed. Rather, I’d like to learn from this and tweak as best we can to get it right and off to a good start. Therefore pushing the closing out over the holidays until next week feels better to me. Making sure the wiki has the explicit instruction and pointers to the EASIG Lists threads where much of the discussion is happening is second priority. I’m not sure what to say about the vote single vote for the two positions problem, except perhaps to consider this vote a first round for the chair position, and do a second for vice chair. That could be shorter in duration since we hopefully have socialized everyone about the process. It gives all who were vying for lead to decide if they want to stand for vice chair, as well as give those who only want to consider the supportive role the ability to do so.
My two cents.
Cheers everyone,Phil
On Nov 25, 2019, at 2:21 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Feng,
OK, it's your call on the timing of when voting is done. I'll send a reminder to the list right after this and ask people to vote by the end of the day.
I am glad we ended up giving people more than 2 days to vote since there have clearly been people with questions about the process who have needed some time to get their votes in.
Thanks,David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 10:49 AM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I understand some of the issues, however, to be totally honest, some of the confusions were caused by allowing some on-the-fly changes. I had proposed for the vote to run for only 2 days, but I went with your suggestion to run the vote for multiple days. So I say let’s stick to the plan and close the vote by Monday as you have planned.
Thanks!
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollFeng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
Phillip Long
Hi: Looks like I disagree with the nature of the problem. I tend to view the goal to give as much opportunity as possible to the community to give their input. From that lens, extending the timeline of the vote is a real positive. We’ve all commented on the
challenges that the standard processes we have are a bit cumbersome. And while David has suggested that anyone on the EASIG can edit the web page to clarify things, it’s probably unrealistic to expect people new to this space to jump right in a do that. Those
that might be able to and are more familiar are also typically deeply involved in other things. The ability for them is there. The time isn’t
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
So my bias is toward holding it open until the following Monday. Hopefully the wiki can be edited by then, if it’s not already, to clearly point people not just to the voting page (and the list membership required to do it) but also provide some
help regarding where these conversations are happening. It would be nice to have the wiki be the focal point and link to the discussion threads, for example.
I also retain some concern about voting for leadership and second prize is vice chair. I think most people who are thinking about vice chair do so intentionally, not as an alternative to the chair position. To me that drives talent away rather
than encouraging new people to step up, as stepping up requires you put yourself in contention for the chair. Sharon, for example, is very clear about not wanting to be chair, but wanting to help. However, the system we have demands she be seeking the chair
and hoping she is chosen by just enough to fall into second place. That to me isn’t ideal.
I’m not trying to muck up the works here. I just don’t see quite the pressure to wrap this up as some have expressed. Rather, I’d like to learn from this and tweak as best we can to get it right and off to a good start. Therefore pushing the closing
out over the holidays until next week feels better to me. Making sure the wiki has the explicit instruction and pointers to the EASIG Lists threads where much of the discussion is happening is second priority. I’m not sure what to say about the vote single
vote for the two positions problem, except perhaps to consider this vote a first round for the chair position, and do a second for vice chair. That could be shorter in duration since we hopefully have socialized everyone about the process. It gives all who
were vying for lead to decide if they want to stand for vice chair, as well as give those who only want to consider the supportive role the ability to do so.
My two cents.
Cheers everyone,
Phil
On Nov 25, 2019, at 2:21 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Feng,
OK, it's your call on the timing of when voting is done. I'll send a reminder to the list right after this and ask people to vote by the end of the day.
I am glad we ended up giving people more than 2 days to vote since there have clearly been people with questions about the process who have needed some time to get their votes in.
Thanks,David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 10:49 AM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I understand some of the issues, however, to be totally honest, some of the confusions were caused by allowing some on-the-fly changes. I had proposed for the vote to run for only 2 days, but I went with your suggestion to run the vote for multiple days. So I say let’s stick to the plan and close the vote by Monday as you have planned.
Thanks!
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollFeng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
David Boswell
Feng,
OK, it's your call on the timing of when voting is done. I'll send a reminder to the list right after this and ask people to vote by the end of the day.
I am glad we ended up giving people more than 2 days to vote since there have clearly been people with questions about the process who have needed some time to get their votes in.
Thanks,
David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 10:49 AM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I understand some of the issues, however, to be totally honest, some of the confusions were caused by allowing some on-the-fly changes. I had proposed for the vote to run for only 2 days, but I went with your suggestion to run the vote for multiple days. So I say let’s stick to the plan and close the vote by Monday as you have planned.
Thanks!
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollFeng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
David Boswell
John,
You can subscribe to the group's mailing list by going to this page and clicking on 'Join This Group'.
Thanks,
David
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:44 AM John Joseph <jjoseph@...> wrote:
Hi David and Feng could I please get the web page to subscribe again? Not sure why my last link did not work. Might have been my connection.Thanks John Joseph
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "David Boswell via Lists.Hyperledger.Org" <dboswell=linuxfoundation.org@...>Date: 11/25/19 9:49 AM (GMT-07:00)Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
Feng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
Hou, Feng
David,
I understand some of the issues, however, to be totally honest, some of the confusions were caused by allowing some on-the-fly changes. I had proposed for the vote to run for only 2 days, but I went with your suggestion to run the vote for multiple days. So
I say let’s stick to the plan and close the vote by Monday as you have planned.
Thanks!
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:49 AM
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
Feng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,
David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
John Joseph <jjoseph@...>
Hi David and Feng could I please get the web page to subscribe again? Not sure why my last link did not work. Might have been my connection.
Thanks John Joseph
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "David Boswell via Lists.Hyperledger.Org" <dboswell=linuxfoundation.org@...>
Date: 11/25/19 9:49 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: education-architecture-sig@...
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
Feng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,
David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
David Boswell
Feng,
One thought is that we can extend the voting period to give people more time to vote so they have more time to work through subscribing. If you are OK with that we can make that change. How about we extend this to next Monday?
And auto-subscribing people to mailing lists is very often not appreciated by people and many consider email that they receive on lists that they didn't sign up for to be spam.
Many of these current questions and concerns could have been addressed if we had set up regular calls when the group launched. That is a best practice I recommended when the group launched and I strongly encourage setting those calls up.
Thanks,
David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 10:50 PM Hou, Feng <fhou@...> wrote:
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the pollPhil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
Hou, Feng
David,
I had also let you know that several people who were on the original wiki list now cannot vote because they were not subscribed to this list. To subscribe to this list and to find where to vote is not as easy as you think. I do question why Linux Foundation
has such a policy not to auto subscribe the original group of people who had help create the SIG after all. Either it is intentional or not, the current system and policy systematically keeps people away instead of draw them in, which is not in line with the
open community that Linux Foundation claims to be.
Feng
From: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...> on behalf of David Boswell <dboswell@...>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:12:25 PM
To: education-architecture-sig@... <education-architecture-sig@...>
Subject: Re: [education-architecture-sig] Instructions for how to subscribe to the list and take part in the poll
Phil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps
on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software
is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on
the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,
David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
David Boswell
Phil,
Thank you for raising these points about how to make the voting process clearer.
The wiki is a resource for the whole group and everyone in the group can get access to edit it and is welcome to do so. If anyone sees ways to improve the wiki, please feel free to make edits. I edited the Elections page to update it and provide steps on how to vote.
And as you point out, there is some confusion with needing two accounts to edit the wiki and to join the mailing list. There is a Linux Foundation ID that is used for most of the group's tools (such as the wiki) but currently the mailing list software is a separate login. Ideally that will get addressed and simplified so people just need one account.
And our policy is to not auto-subscribe people to the mailing lists. For people who added their name to the Members page, instructions about how to join the mailing list were sent out to them when the group was launched and they could choose to be on the mailing list or not. I also just updated the Members page with mailing list subscription information.
If you see other ways to improve the process, please let us know.
Thanks,
David
On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 3:16 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@...> wrote:
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
"For reference, I have an account here:and am listed on this page:However, I was not subscribed to:I found out about the vote from another member and went through these steps to vote:1- Add a https://lists.hyperledger.org/ Account, it appears this is a different account than the wiki site.2- Subscribe to the education-architecture-sig@... list3- Then go to this link to vote: https://lists.hyperledger.org/g/education-architecture-sig/message/109
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
Phillip Long
David: I’m getting a little concerned that the website doesn’t seem to have the link that takes people to the vote. You still have to have a hyperledger “lists" account to be able to exercise your vote. However, I would
have thought that we would want to make it as easy as possible for people to get to the voting page. There is a link to EASIG
Leadership Election, on the EASIG site but all I can see is a statement by Feng as follows:
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
"I'd suggest that we start the open period tomorrow (11/8/2019) for 7 days for those of you who are interested to put your names on the ballot. After the 7th day (11/15/2019), I'll ask David Boswell to help set up an election poll and keep it running for 2 days till 11/17/2019 for the EASIG members to vote. David will announce the election results at the end of the 2nd day.“
That’s an older note about our discussions on the process, and not the vote itself. It ends on how to nominate someone.
If you go to the link in the email you or if someone sends the link in email to you, will get a a message that says you’re not a member of the group, aka the ‘lists’ email group. You have to subscribe to
email lists group and refresh your browser pointing to the voting page. Now you can login and vote. But you won’t get that link if you aren’t on the list to begin with. That’s a bit of a Catch-22.
I realize some of the complexity can’t be avoided given the software that is being used. You have to have two accounts, etc. But I do think it is problematic that, at least as far as I can tell, the EASIG
website does not have a clear statement of the process and explicit instructions of what you need to do to get to the voting page.
Here is what one of the people that talked to me about their difficulty in figuring out how to vote. They listed what they did to explain their experience:
And now when someone does that they can see the list of candidates with the radio buttons to vote."
I’m concerned that we might be less inclusive that we should be in our openness by not having clear instructions on the EASIG site for joining and to express one's voting preferences.
I think there is an easy remedy for this. I suggest we add a voting tab to the vertical navigation page for the EASIG webite. On it we say “how to vote” with clear instructions that voting is a two-step process. Follow that with list of instructions. I would explain that voting commenced on whatever date it was opened. Finally it would conclude saying voting will remain open until Thanksgiving Holiday Wed. Feb. 26th at xxx time of xxx timezone. So there is at least a weekend and three days for word to circulate.
David, what do you, and for rest of the group think about taking these actions ASAP?
Regards,
Phil
On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:56 PM, David Boswell <dboswell@...> wrote:
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
David Boswell
I've heard some reports that people are not sure how to subscribe to the Education Architecture's mailing list and take part in the poll. If you know of people having problems please forward this information to them.
Steps to take to sign up to the list:
* The first thing to note is that this is an open group and anyone can sign themselves up. If someone is interested in what this group is doing, please feel free to join us.
* To sign up to the group's mailing list, please go to the mailing list page at the link below. When they get there, click on the 'Join This Group' button and then they are subscribed.
* This is linked to on the group's main wiki page in the 'Communication Channels' section with the link 'subscribe'. That wiki page is at:
* People can also find out about this group by going to the main www.hyperlegder.org site. Under the Community navigation item there is a link to 'Join a Working Group or SIG' that will take people to the wiki page.
Please feel free to share any of these links and this email with anyone you think should be taking part in this group.
Thanks,
David